The relationship between food and disease startling discovery interview (on)

 Guests:
Chen Jun-shi: Nutrition and food safety experts, the Chinese Academy of Engineering.
T. Colin. Campbell, PhD: Cornell University tenured professor, known as
Moderator: users Hello everyone, Welcome to the Sohu chat room guests.
host (off Chunfang): branch of science by the Chinese Medical Association organized and co-channel Sohu delicious healthy relationship between the startling discovery and disease expert interviews now. First, let me introduce on-site guest:
world-renowned nutritionist, tenured professor at Cornell University, known as Einstein, the medical profession and found dioxin Campbell Professor;
CPPCC National Committee, Chinese Academy of Engineering, the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention researcher Chen Jun Shi Yuanshi;
assistant to the president of China Union Medical College, Assistant Dean of the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Peking Union Medical College of Continuing Education Dean Professor Huang Jianshi; < br> Chinese Medical Association Deputy Secretary-General Miss Han Xiaoming;
Development Center of China Association of Journalists News Director Mr. Wang Dalong;
science director of the Chinese Medical Association Miss Qian Yue;
popular branch of the work of the Chinese Medical Association secretary, Health News Editorial Director of Medical Technology Miss Wang Lingling;
sit there in the following publication for Professor Campbell, Club general manager of Beijing Tu Road, Kwun.
interviews today and I Sohu Health Channel by the editor of Miss He Bo chair.
He Bo: Members media friends, ladies and friends Hello everybody! we had more of an interview with the Inter- disease relationship, and today is very special, invited American professors, a professor of Chinese and so many reporters here, very pleased with the teachers to preside over this off Chunfang interview, the interview was off Chunfang teachers contributed to the strong support of Thank science branch of the Chinese Medical Association support.
host (off Chunfang): In addition to Beijing today, a lot of media studio, there are two hundred mainstream media, including China, the mainstream media, including all of the capital cities of the media friends like us to participate in the interview online.
guest lecture on the two to do some brief, Professor Chen Junshi food and nutrition security expert, he is subject of food toxicology one of the founders of China took the lead in the international arena to contribute to the drafting of food safety regulations, to make a significant contribution to our accession to the WTO. John Campbell grew up on dairy farms in the United States, is the son of farmers, small milk cheese to eat fried foods, from He engaged in decades of protein research, the study found the Philippines a study of children suffering from liver cancer, rich kids to eat more protein, eat animal protein more children have liver cancer, which he began A painstaking study. We started interviews.
first ask Professor Chen Junshi, the two countries is completely different from the table, two countries thousands of miles apart, the two professors you how to come together and how to adhere to the 27 years to complete this project? this project the Ministry of Health Science and Technology Progress Award, was the foreign media called the pinnacle of epidemiology. Where the meaning of its children? it conveyed a sound? tell What are we?
Chen Jun-shi: netizens Hello everybody, I am glad to have the opportunity to share with my friend for 27 years with Professor Campbell passed as a guest with you about diet and nutrition-related chronic disease prevention and control of information .1980 I was a professor at Cornell University, Professor Campbell laboratories engaged in the diet and cancer research, our common vision of a large scale in China to explore the epidemiological study of people eating in the end what happened with us diseases, especially cancer and other forms of cardiovascular disease and diabetes in the end have nothing to do. So in 1981 we have 24 provinces in China, the 69 counties of the first large-scale surveys, our survey included 69 counties the situation on the people of dietary questionnaires and blood and urine sample analysis, there are a large variety of research tools to study a variety of indicators, completed the first step of our work. Then, in 1989, made Repeat the second survey, the same 24 provinces, 69 counties in the same extended to sociology, economics, some of the indicators.
an unprecedented scale through this investigation, we concluded that there is only one, that is, diet with China and the United States with the disease status and disease status of dietary comparison, we agreed to the Chinese people the unique plant-based diet food, that food, vegetables, fruits, beans based meals The typical American diet than the traditional, to animal food-based meal, chicken, duck, fish, meat, eggs, milk-based diet is more beneficial to people's health, more favorable to the prevention and control of chronic diseases, including cancer , diabetes, hypertension, stroke and so on. Of course, some areas lack of nutrition is another thing, not the focus of our research. focus of our research is to find such a comparison and found that China's current diet than in the U.S. There are many health advantages.
host (where wave): superiority, in what aspects?
host (off Chunfang): Professor and Professor Chen Junshi Campbell's writings were posted on the world, many media newspapers, and call it the pinnacle of epidemiology, said the report has a surprising discovery that in the end what amazing discovery? Please explain to us, Professor Campbell.
Campbell: The Chinese diet is due to better Because Chinese food so that all the nutritional characteristics of food are nutrients, the nutritional characteristics of the Chinese diet is that it is plant-based foods, so the better. vegetable-based food and animal-based food and nutrition is not the same It has a variety of foods of cellulose, and it has many antioxidants and other chemical elements, as well as different types of proteins and other kinds of different fats and so on. When we consider the various plant food the characteristics of different nutrients, and animal-based foods that nutrition is not the same. When we compare the characteristics of a variety of food and nutrition and the relationship between disease, we found the nutritional plant food than animal food better nutrition.
host (He waves): It is not to say that eating plant-based foods is healthier?
Chen Jun-shi: Yes. I can answer further extension of Professor Campbell about, He has clearly described the diet in China and the different characteristics of the United States, if we combined the people of China and the United States, occurrence of the disease point of view, can show the advantages of the Chinese diet, which means that China at least 80 years in the last century we have the highest The prevalence of heart disease is low, a relationship with coronary heart disease and cholesterol, cholesterol in rural China is far less than the U.S. average. Why? is based on the Chinese people eat mainly plant food. China's diabetes Chinese women's breast cancer, colon cancer, and so that men are important in China the incidence of cancer is much less than the United States.
Our conclusion is very simple, is to compare a local and a local comparison is not convincing, we used 69 Chinese counties to compare specific information, then it is very convincing. So why the past people did not find, not the past did not know, and we provide the first such fuller evidence to show such a difference is caused by our two countries, the incidence of chronic diseases is important because different, perhaps because it is not all.
host (where wave): plant-based foods are not equal to a vegetarian?
Chen Jun-shi: plant-based foods are not equal to a vegetarian? Professor Campbell relatively unique perspective.
Campbell: vegetarians eat there often is in addition to vegetables, fruits, corn these plant foods, also includes eggs, dairy products, these things. plant foods including vegetables, cereals, maize, fruits, etc., does not include eggs and dairy products, so I do not like to use the word vegetarian, and willing to use plant food.
Chen Jun-shi: I can further explain why he does not like to use vegetarian. vegetarian this meaning in different countries, different people which is not the same meaning, you often come across many people vegetarian, such as India, Many Indians are vegetarian, but he is drinking milk, so according to our classification of science can be divided into pure vegetarians that vegetarians do not eat any animal, do not drink milk, do not eat fish, there is a feeding species is called the vegetarian eggs, even some fish can call themselves a vegetarian. So from a scientific argument, not definition of the concept of vegetarian, so he likes to plant food-based, it will be clear to the main plant food can have different degrees to one hundred percent plant-based foods.
host (off Chunfang): This morning, the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Professor Campbell made a very wonderful speech, about four were found, Chen Jun Shi Yuanshi translation was also very exciting, and today there are a lot of media in the hope that Professor Campbell is more popular to speak some of his findings.
Chen Jun-shi: On a vegetarian, I am willing to go further to elaborate, Professor Campbell, the views expressed by this morning. He said we already have ample evidence that plant food based diet for the prevention of chronic disease is beneficial. is not a must, in the end how much to eat by plant food is good, it depends on your choice. his own case as an example, he would eat one hundred percent of the plant food. Chunfang from just off the teacher's introduction, we can know that Professor Campbell farm-born child, grew up drinking milk to eat meat, researchers are not to eat any animal food, because he not only got to know from the concept of plant food-based diet is good for health, and he personally felt that I not care about animal's delicious, I do not feel good. I also think it is my mental outlook, physical activity the body is very good. If I eat 90% of plant food so difficult to master, since there is no inappropriate uncomfortable, it is easy to implement, why not eat one hundred percent of plants.
but it does not mean that I advocate all the world's people eat one hundred percent plant food, if people are willing to according to their own tastes, their own habits, their hobbies to the choice, it is justifiable. But the key is to plant food is the main principle of this idea can not change.
host (off Chunfang): John Campbell finished four after the discovery of a stone ripple.
Campbell: plant food based on the point of view, from a scientific point of view, I would say the closer you are to eat more plant food you will be healthy. That is the composition of diet which accounted for more plant foods, the more healthy. But when I say eat more plant foods in more healthy, not to say that one hundred percent healthy to eat more foods referring to things, but according to the current study, according to many associated study, the more plant foods to eat more healthy. When I was in that plant food is good, I found that based on their own laboratory research, while based on many of my colleagues in the medical profession on clinical findings, to plant mainly food, from my research, and clinical research from my friends, I find the process is incredibly good results, I am willing to do something to explain.
characteristics on the health of plant food, first of all it is a different disease in different degrees, all of the different health effects.
Chen Jun-shi: that is the same plant food, grain, legumes, fruits, vegetables, these same plant food, they are surprisingly similar for different chronic diseases have a role in protection and prevention, cancer, coronary heart disease is clearly not a disease, there are different causes, but similar to plant food-based diet for different chronic diseases, causes different chronic diseases have similar benefits in varying degrees.
Campbell: I just talked about is the food plant food-based beneficial effects on health span, not only breadth, it also has depth. the depth of meaning that such as for heart disease, plant-based foods can reverse the evolution of the original extent of heart disease, and even in some cases can cure heart disease have occurred. while plant foods can also reverse the 90% m95% of the two diabetes, I know that Type II diabetes in China has also become a serious health problem.
I have a friend in the U.S. as a doctor, his doctor of 35 years, just two days ago I had a conversation with him, he treatment of some patients with Type II diabetes, these patients eat a lot of drugs, the patient stopped his medication, after a few days later appeared effects. I am a scientist in my laboratory which I found in animal experiments, Plant-derived foods can promote or slow down the cancer, slow the progress of the disease, which is the example I said the health effects of plant food for the depth and breadth.
plant food and I said, the health The depth of plant foods also have the ability to control the expression of some genes for the disease.
Chen Jun Shi: On the genetic problems that may need some explanation. No matter what disease we all cancer, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes are inside the body of people played a decisive role in the gene, the ultimate expression of a gene leads to disease. John Campbell talked about the main diet of plant foods are beneficial to inhibit or slow down or even stop a more sensitive gene expression, that is to use the words of the people, you have a susceptibility gene for a disease is not terrible, the key is the expression did not express it, if you do not have this gene expression does not matter, it is hidden , latent is not terrible, terrible expression.
gene expression or not is affected by many factors, his research found that, at least in mice found to a number of plant food-based so in terms of diet on mice, rats fed you to plant food-based feed, it can inhibit or delay for such a number of tumor susceptibility gene expression, which less cancer, this is a case in point. not just cancer, The same is true of other diseases.
a susceptibility gene is not terrible, if you use a healthy lifestyle, especially the emphasis on plant foods-based diet, then you can not latent gene expression in susceptible or delay the expression.
Campbell: The third example, a number of plant food to control the toxic and carcinogenic effects of chemical substances with great effect. on the health effects plant food for the breadth and depth of the same type of food can be prevented disease, can have a tremendous health impact. We can clearly see the health effects of plant food for the breadth and depth, especially in the biochemical level, this effect can be seen. especially the chemical characteristics of certain plant food for the disease prevention and health is very common, and these effects, and Chen Jun Shi Yuanshi I also do research in China, further support the evidence collected.
host (where wave): We have just half an hour discussion, including friends and our experts have identified a number of plant foods with the relationship between the disease, then the concept of health is not merely to disease in particular for the Chinese people, we live there is a net friend asked such a question In addition to ill health is not called healthy, physically strong and healthy is an expression of foreigners are eating meat, they are tall tall, very effort. Chinese are plant-based foods, this state is not unhealthy? should not we be learning to foreigners, should be more certain meat intake so that they are a little taller, especially the young sprouts do not develop into a situation? Professor Chen to the users, please look at this resolution problem.
Chen Jun-shi: This is a common problem, this morning took a more vivid example of the Chinese football team was asked not red meat in Asia is because the less, wait a minute I think Professor Campbell can be used vivid examples to give you instructions. The world has a large number of sports, the world champion, with the words we have just a vegetarian, you may not believe that he can tell you a named.
In addition, we can not just look muscular, and we depend on long-term, I just said a real impact on health, which means that the impact of chronic disease. because most of our people and even the vast majority of Chinese people, including in rural, 70 %, more than a few people die from chronic diseases, died in cancer, diabetes, hypertension, stroke, 80% of the city a few people die from chronic diseases. We need to see the impact of these diseases, but can not see a momentary muscular, If you are not going to do if bodybuilding champion.
Campbell: I support the view that just Chenyuan Shi, our athletes can have more vegetable protein by eating the muscle, the muscle does not necessarily mean good muscles. I This morning's speech also mentioned an example of a professional football player in the United States does have very strong muscles, because always eat animal food, but they have to pay a high price, that among them have cancer, heart risk of disease is much higher than the average person, it is not worth it. American football is the world's best rugby player the average life expectancy is only 53 years old. On the contrary, for many world-class athletes is to eat plant foods as based, high muscle tension, but also very healthy, do not need to pay so high a price.
average life expectancy of American football players, then only 53 years is to strengthen the muscles by athletes to eat meat, not all NFL Athletes, if not to eat meat to live longer dominated. from a wide range of plant foods on the health impact, from a medical point of view, we can now use food to control disease and promote health, not just is to rely on drugs, this is one of the most important issue. My point is very important to them and Chen Jun Shi Yuanshi my long-term work, by many traditional Chinese medicine and philosophy of the results.
Chen Jun-shi: specifically, , the idea is to treat the person medicine, Western medicine is the treatment philosophy. If Western can not make a diagnosis can not prescribe prescription medicine can not say, it is a state of health regulation, of course, do not say that modern medicine . This is what he said he thought the concept of Chinese medicine that is mentioned in front of him for such a plant-based foods to prevent disease, to mobilize their own forces the body to fight with the disease.
Campbell: I would like to stress that the concept of a holistic, comprehensive concept of food and other factors that may play a significant role together, it is the overall concept and Chinese medicine is the same.
host (off Chunfang): We Now many of my friends have experienced this problem, do not know more than a bite of food or eat more meat, more meat If we are afraid of Gluttons, but if you fear Mianyoucaise more bite, think of an ascetic, no meal meat, tasteless meals feel pain. is not, please tell us about Chen Yuanshi through things after the collision, we believe that the traditional Chinese diet is good, then our food pagoda is how to answer this question? Chenyuan Shi said, vegetarian also have knowledge, let us introduce him to this knowledge.
Chen Jun-shi: Our topic today is the subject of plant food-based dietary health benefits, just now we've talked about why, what are the benefits. We also talk about vegetarian issues, that is not one hundred percent plant food to eat. For the population in general terms, what do we recommend? Chinese Nutrition Society has launched a Chinese residents meal is a very important pagoda tool, also reflects the plant food based diet. because the pagoda is used for the average person, the lowest level of the pagoda, then if we see that food, then the top layer of fruits and vegetables, we all know the end of the pagoda is a large, more The more pointed up, then the food and vegetables, fruits, go upward, it is that some animals of food, then the top is the oil and sugar.
this pagoda guiding significance for everyone and we just talked about referring to things of Food-based dietary pattern is the same, animal food should be small, plant food should be more. This is for everyone concerned, but for a people, you can choose, in the end you this much greater than the top end, just in front of already talked about. plant a bit more food is good food from animal nutrition speaking is not absolutely necessary, but still want to choose an individual. The meaning of the pagoda I would like to illustrate this point, the pagoda is applicable for the whole people, in understanding how in the end after the principle of flexible use of dietary pagoda, then you will be according to their own situation.
plant food such as John Campbell talked about the more there healthy, so I think it means to be complementary to the combination of two. pagoda is you, yourself under such a principle, according to their preferences and their health conditions for the deployment and selection.
host (where wave) : Professor Chen, we just have an on-site users would like to ask you a question mm color mixed vegetables, fruits supplemented! - This is the whole theory of balance of trophic structure. We do this, our nutrition is enough? a statement. then according to Professor Campbell, mentioned earlier, recent scientific research done on such a theory further elaboration, because there did not see in which the main crops on the inside, in which fruit, vegetables and also inside , chicken, fish, meat, eggs are inside, the food in our world there are so many, in the end with what kind of time with a reasonable choice, based on our repeated talk about today, such a theory in which we choose to plant more food grains other than that there are vegetables, fruits and beans.
host (where wave): If you achieve such a balanced diet also need to add some nutritional supplements such as the current number of health care products, including vitamin supplement agent.
Chen Jun-shi: This question, in principle, we will always be the nutritionist food with reasonable as the first, which is said to Professor Campbell, if the grain, vegetables, fruits, beans with Well, then, it has thousands of species of nutrients in it, nutrition is very complete. under normal circumstances does not mean you have to use nutrient supplements, not to mention health food, it is another thing. But I think we can not say nutritional supplements to beat him to death, because people have different circumstances, such as when people are pregnant may need to be more of iron, which is a special physiological periods.
some people because of certain special circumstances may be missing something, missing some of the micronutrients vitamin Ye Hao Ye Hao, then he may need to add one point. we generally speaking not from the nutrition claims by vitamin mineral supplements to ensure you are full of nutrition, but to rely on with a reasonable variety of food.
Campbell: I would like to talk about the vegetarian cause debilitating problem, history, we will often associated with debilitating and vegetarian, This is mainly because most of the past, vegetarians are relatively poor can not afford to eat meat, while we may not notice the place is often in poor public health conditions are relatively poor, so easy to get sick easily because of these reasons weak. But now the situation is different, in modern countries, vegetarians intake of many plant species, will not result in malnutrition, monotonous, it should be good.
the same time I want to talk about nutritional supplements is China, vitamins and health products be a complement, in the past few years there have been many research information to demonstrate that some dietary supplements is of no use, and some are even harmful. Generally, nutritional supplements are an element in a tablet inside , looks like something to supplement a particular good, but in fact this is not a nutrient, which is pharmaceutical drugs, because our body is very complex, requiring a comprehensive system to add, this is actually a kind of supplement does not work .
host (where wave): Thank you, two professors, we are also very rich life, and be able to eat the food is varied, and include grains, fruits, dairy products are also numerous. scene, a User ask the two professors, lead to high cholesterol, this conclusion in the end what is? cancer. We'd like to Professor Campbell, this conclusion tell us? is not to drink milk? including eggs is not impossible to eat?
Campbell: Based on my research laboratory, indeed I found casein promoted the development and progression of cancer, but we are talking about people who are not the same, on the casein protein from the Western scientific literature milk is indeed a problem, it can increase cholesterol, it effects even worse than saturated fatty acids also, it can cause the body's acidic environment so damage our bodies, protein to promote secretion of certain hormones the body, causing different diseases, these new research evidence, some research evidence is older . we can not fully understand is that all the evidence is based on western scientific literature, and on China to eat a small amount of milk in China, this volume is very small, so I did not say that the Chinese can not eat milk, But I can clearly tell you that the milk in the West is indeed a problem, I think this is the need to let everyone know.
I grew up in the dairy, milk and eating beef is to eat growing up, I very reluctant to see such a fact. But I have to tell you that this is a fact.
Chen Jun-stone: and there are two questions, one is not, as some media say, read Report question, I think even though the two issues linked, it is best to thoroughly analyze separately.
the first question, the lab, one group of rats eating casein protein that the milk inside, another group of mice Eat vegetable protein, and two groups of mice at the same time it is a carcinogenic toxin enzyme Phyllotreta a carcinogen, which is a resounding carcinogens. The experimental results showed that rats eating casein liver cancer than eating plants long This group of proteins longer liver of rats much more. I think that milk can not simply trigger a cancer, says science is such an animal model in which, what model? song yellow enzyme toxins.
if no yellow enzyme toxins song, whether it is milk or vegetable protein will not cause any cancer, but in an animal model of this means the circumstances, it is clear Phyllotreta casein enzyme can increase the role of toxins, that enhance its role in promoting the cancer. trigger that is not right to say, it increases your risk of cancer occurrence, it is right. This is an animal. The meaning of animal experiments is not only a casein kinds of means, more importantly, cause the whole animal foods, eat more animal food is not an enhanced role in cancer.
second question is about the eggs and milk can not eat the problem. I agree with Professor Campbell has just speaking, he's the evidence cited by the dietary conditions are based on the United States, the Americans is 70% of dietary protein is animal protein, mostly in the inside or at least a half of milk and dairy products come from, that is, said that Americans eat 35% m40% of the protein from dairy products, so that the milk for the adverse health effect. There is always a quantity of the amount of Chinese people do not know what.
should be said that the milk which in addition to protein or have some other good things, but we did not come to a comprehensive evaluation of nutrition, the information I can agree with Professor Campbell, if the Chinese milk and dairy products a day to eat like Americans so much, then We do not encourage it, we do not advocate that the Chinese people eat 70% of the U.S. follow the example of animal protein, and there are 35% m40% from milk, that is a lot of consumption. back to We still need to plant food for the Lord of the meal, milk If it is 3% m5%, that is not what can not, but the Western Enlightenment is very important. because we are pocket money, and our Western diet trend is obvious . They give us information that knocked an alarm, we can not take their old, I think this is the correct view of the world, nothing is absolute and can be very, very good or absolutely, without any problems, impossible.
Campbell: According to our point of view of people doing scientific research, information from different sources, but the results of scientific research can not be based on the individual like it or not, I believe do not believe, can not decide how I am going to do , but according to the objective, can not say that scientific research can be obtained for each thing is absolutely the answer. But from my own research and my own understanding of the scientific research results, I do not eat dairy products tend to I myself and my wife and my five sons, five grandchildren, and we do not eat dairy products, this is my personal hobbies and preferences.
especially for the kids I do not encourage them to eat dairy products If a child eating habit, will eat a big habit, and eat more and more, this is not good. This is my personal view. I am here also say the benefits of milk, at least Many people believe or say in the discussion of the benefits of milk. that there are at least two reasons why milk is good, the first milk that can promote the growth of children so that children grow faster and grow taller. Second, each of us need calcium, milk can provide a lot of calcium, tall, and has calcium, bones and teeth stronger, which is second on the benefits of milk. Many people believe so, in fact, children are tall, grow faster will bring many problems, so this is not necessarily good. grow fast, tall can cause precocious puberty, precocious puberty is a problem, there are girls early menstruation, causing early menstruation girls with high sex hormone levels, we all know the high level of sex hormones and breast cancer and uterine cancer are related.
not we need calcium? we compared the calcium intake found that many are from calcium in dairy products, has now been found that high calcium intake is actually brought a high incidence of osteoporosis. on the research in this area at least 20 years of scientific literature in here to prove that instead of an intake of calcium and more bone high incidence of osteoporosis. Finally, I would like to talk, I'm not the only thing people know this, I believe I know this is based on the results of scientific research, but we may need more discussion, so everyone can understand things, we can reach a consensus.
Chen Jun-shi: I think I now have to make some different points of view, to such a lively atmosphere. I fully agree with the modern nutrition there is sufficient evidence to prove that children's growth and development is not the sooner the better, as we still in the developing countries much better than the original state of the economy, we have now found more and more large newborn, that a child born weighing too much. We often say this ...